Dear Prof Hattingh,
I am currently leading an Assembly. The men’s department decided to have a discussion about ancestral worship. I need your help regarding the following verses: 1 Samuel 28: 15/16 & Luke 16: 24-29.
After the discussions I will be required to give direction on this matter. Can you kindly clarify these verses for me within the context of ancestral worship?
The story in 1 Samuel 28 is one of the most strange and inconceivable stories of the Old Testament. It is also a very sad story of Israel’s first anointed king falling into sin and the grip of darkness, so much so that he afterwards killed himself. Furthermore, it is also a display of the strange reality of darkness and evil – it is a story of the night.
It is strange, if you read the story hastily, that a saint of God like the prophet Samuel responded to the call of a medium and spiritualist. She was, however, shocked and cried out in fear when she saw Samuel and immediately recognised Saul, the king. She was not fully clued-in with the situation.
Samuel was upset that Saul disturbed him by “bringing him up”, but none the less spoke God’s judgement on Saul: “tomorrow you and your sons will be with me”.
What do I try to understand from this story:
- There is a strange world of evil and spirit forces.
- God is in control and even this display of the reality of darkness was totally under God’s control and it served his purpose. God is the great reality.
- There are two forces in this world: On the one side God who is light and truth and on the other side the devil, darkness and the lie, which is no threat to God. The Biblical truth is that everything, even the evil and the devil exist only because God allows it to exist. In the Psalms the night which is seen as the birth place and habitat of evil, is employed as messenger of God. Although this Samuel and medium story is very strange and evil, God is still in control.
- This strange story should not allow us to think that mediums and spiritualists are ways to make contact with the spirit world or with God, or to take part in ancestral worship.
- The Bible mentions this reality and warns us against it. Paul wrote: “For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against rulers, against authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.” (Eph 6:12).
- In 1 Chronicles 10:11 we read: “So the Lord put him (Saul) to death and turned the kingdom to David, son of Jesse.” God did it because Saul: “… did not keep the word of the Lord but consulted a medium for guidance, …”.
- Leviticus 19:31 and Deuteronomy 18:9-14 contains God’s warning against: a medium or spiritist or whoever consults the death.
- The Biblical truth is that the only way to go to God is through Jesus and the working of the Holy Spirit. Jesus said: “God is spirit, and his worshippers must worship in spirit and in truth.” (John 4:24).
The Luke 16 story is a parable although it is not mentioned as such. Many of Jesus’ parables started with: “There was …”. The content of Luke 16 is in the parable gender style. In a parable the speaker is conveying certain truths with the help of a story. One is not allowed to give meaning to every detail of the story. You have to ask: “What is the specific truth that the speaker wants to convey with this parable?” Certainly it is not possible that the parable suggests a conversation between the rich man in hell and Abraham in heaven or the possibility that somebody in heaven can put water on the tongue of somebody in hell or that somebody from there can come to earth to convey a message.
The parable does however convey the truth that there are two different destinations: one for God fearing people and another for those who do not fear God, an eternal heaven and an eternal hell with no crossing between the two. And also that there is no possibility of sending a messenger from the other side to warn people on this side. They have to listen to Moses and the Prophets, the Bible and God’s messengers.
There is no indication that one can or is allowed to make contact with people in hell or heaven or ancestral worship.
Finally, I have to put it straight, as you already know that the New Testament is very clear that Jesus our Lord and Saviour is the only door to God and salvation, and that salvation is worked through the Holy Spirit. The people of Galatians wanted to add something else to this truth of Jesus and the work of the Holy Spirit but Paul was furious with them for doing this: “…let them be eternally condemned!” (Gal 1:9).
I trust that this will help.
Your friend,
Jan Hattingh
Thank you for writing on this important matter. I did a focused M.A that touched on Ancestor Christology in 2013 in the hope that I could add a bit to the discussion. North-West University has placed the thesis online: http://hdl.handle.net/10394/11043
Geagte Prof Hatting,
Ek hoop nie u gee om dat ek in afrikaans n bydrae lewer nie. Ek vind dit altyd interesand as mense met bybelse waarhede, taboes en skrifte gekonfronteer word waar ons soms gaan draai om verduidelings te gee.
Ek besef dat ek geen teologiese onderig ontvang het nie maar kan met opregtheid se dat ek uit genade “vrygekoopte kind van God” agter my naam kan skryf.
In ons menswees vergeet ons soms dat ons eindelik min van die geestelikke realim en wette weet. My mening is dat God dit juis so wou he. Ons kan net Levitikus 19:31, 20:6 en Jesaja 8:19 gaan lees soos God in sy woord vir ons laat opteken het dan is die verduidelikking reeds genoeg en duidelik wat God van die voorgeslagtelikke geeste beoefening dink. Is dit nie ook die selfde God wat gese het dat ” Ek jou met geen ander afgod deel nie” en dat Hy nie so iets by jou wil vind nie. Ons weet almal dat God geestelik is en so ook satan. As jy op die vlak is om geestelikke kommunikasie te he met enige geeste dan moet jy dienssbaar en onderdanig wees aan die geeste. Waarom wil ons die punt probeer bewys of dit moontlik is al dan nie as ons nie toegerus word of deur God toegelaat word om dit te doen nie. Vir God is enige iets moontlik en Hy kan toelaat wat Hy wil of nie wil nie!!
Ek wonder of my boetie nie juis moet verduidelik aan sy mensies dat dit n gebied is waar kinders van God nie moet wees nie. Of jy “African Tripe” is met sy eie wette of westerse, oosterse of enige ander persoon, God se woord is vir almal die selfde met die selfde betekenis of bedoeling en ons almal sal die selfde oordeel ontvang soos ons woord vir ons leer.
Seenwense,
Johan
Kindly take note that as a born again Christian we are not allowed to do the ancestral worship. 1 Thes 4: 13 “13 Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. 14 For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.
1 Sam 28: 15 – 16 that was a vision Saul has seen because Samuel was always rebuking Saul because of disobedient, it was not Samuel as ghost or ancestral.
Hi ,thank you so much Prof for that information because those scriptures confuse quite a number of people.
l though l could also add my comments and understanding pertaining the verses mentioned above.Starting with 1 Sam 28:15, why would Samuel who died a man of God appear when Saul had inquired from a woman with familiar spirits( ungodly spirit), ancestral worshiper.
l think this happened because before the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ,Satan claimed all lives of those who died regardless of their prior relationship with God before death thus he Satan was in charge of the dead,why? because the blood of the Christ had not yet been shed for the cleansing of Man’s sins only the blood of animals had been shed, so Satan also stood by the word of God which He said”For the wages of sin is death;but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.”(Rom 6:23)
So as rightly said above in that parable in Luke 16:24 there are certain truths that were being tough us by our Lord e.g all the dead were under the control of the Satan, those who died without a good relationship with Jehovah would go to hell(a place to await the final judgement)which l believe is different from the lake of fire the place of eternal punishment.Those with a good relationship with Jehovah would go to Abraham’s bosom(another place to await judgement) these places where in the same vicinity but with a barrier.
Thus 1 peter 3:19 talks of Jesus going to preach unto the spirits that were in prison, this is referring to the three days when He went to the heart of the earth when he preached to the spirits that were in the hands of Satan, this means even Samuel was part of the people who were preached to.To quote the words of pastor Perry Stone ,He was trying to paraphrase the message that our Lord could have preached to the spirits who were in prison as in 1 Peter 3:19 , He says Jesus could have started by asking Adam are you here and Adam responds yes I am here Iv been bound by Satan and Jesus in response says i have come, that tree that was called the tree of life in the Garden its me ,Isiah are you here, when you said unto as a child is born you were referring to me i have come ,pack your bags we are going, Abraham are you here ,when you said the Lord shall provide a lamp, you were prophesying about me pack your bags we are going.
On the third day when Jesus was resurrected it is said that even the graves of those who had died were opened and they rose from the dead and appeared to many.This marked the exodus of the dead Godly, who were in prison. Abraham’s bosom now paradise was transferred as result of the death and resurrection of Christ.
In conclusion and answer to the initial question ,Satan was in charge of all who died so when those with familiar spirits (ancestral worshipers) inquire of the dead, their inquiries go straight to the master of the dead who would decide which of the dead to show to the inquirers. And this phenomenon can never happen now because Satan is no longer in charge of those who sleep in Christ.
Thank you.
i have a question .. seeing that your name is south african … i believe in Christ all the way … but because of my dreams … i was told i should be a sangoma .. i’m declining tht calling … but now .. you the negative that comes to decling the calling .. how to rebuke it .. respectfully
Hi Mpho, see if Prof Hattingh’s comment below can help you? https://www.ats.ac.za/blog/i-am-a-pastor-please-help-me-with-ancestral-worship/#comment-89226
I am a Pastor….I want to further my studies from 2015. I have a diploma but now I want to carry on. Please assist me on how to register for next year. .
Yours in Christ
……
MW.Makabane
Wow! Such a wonderful information especially from Farai. It really makes sense. Thank you all for these truth. Good to share.May GOD ALMIGHTY bless you all.
Thank you man of God Farai for we share the same understanding and I glorify God for that. Its quite an interesting discussion. glory to God who reveals deeper things about Himself to us through the Holy Spirit.
GOD BLESS MEN OF GOD great teaching
Amen Servant of the Most High God!🙏
I thank God to understand this story of Saul who went to the spiritual media woman. 🤭
I also thank you for revealing to us that Jesus Christ is the Way, the Truth and the Life. No one goes 👣 to the Father except through Him. 😇
I also need your Help 🤷♂️
1. ” I am always followed by monitoring birds wherever I go.
2. And itching and painful objects are moving in my body. I tried to consult born again Churches prayerful Pastors but in vain.
3. I also encounter good dreams mixed with bad dreams. I have studied Theology up Diploma when my dreams were guiding me to study it. By that time my dreams were accurate and I could even know where to preach and pray for people whom God healed. I becae discouraged when some of them died from their sicknesses. At present I am on wheelchair for 8 years. Please guide me my hands and feet are deformed. Amen!🙏🙏🙏👏🙇♂️🙇♀️
I am so sorry to read about your challenging situation: “I am in a wheelchair for 8 years… my hands and feet are deformed”.
I do not have all the answers, but I will try to address some of your questions:
1. “I am always followed by monitoring birds wherever I go.” You did not say whether the birds are a bad or a good experience to you, but it seems from your writing that it is strange to you. There can be real life conditions created by the devil with the intent to try and trouble God’s people. But it can also be that sometimes, as a result of the hardship somebody endured, that he/she may become distrustful (paranoid) and then may interpret it as something or somebody who is chasing or pursuing him/her. That is sad, for the hardship that the person had endured was very real and over a long time. In this case the person’s experience is psychological and not real but still very real to him.
My advice to you is to concentrate on God’s presence and the good things He is still doing for you. If you constantly concentrate on the bad things, the devil will use the opportunity to trouble you, for he is aware of your response. If it is however some real attack of the evil one, my answer will still be the same: rejoice in the Lord and His presence through the power of the Holy Spirit and do it with your whole heart. The work of God through the Holy Spirit in us is greater than any evil powers.
2. “An itching and painful object are moving in my body.” Did you consult a medical doctor? Something happened to me about 14 months ago and I had to undergo an operation. Since then I have constant pain in my back. Sometimes it seems as if the pain is moving from one place to another. I talked to a neurologist recently and he told me that the pain is neurological (a problem in my central nerve system) as a result of permanent damage to my spinal cord. I must live with it. He offered me medication that will temporarily relieve the pain, but it will never heal it completely. I did not accept the medication, for I can live with the pain and I am hesitant to use too much medication. The Lord can nonetheless do a miracle and heal me at any time.
Paul wrote about his problems: “I was given a painful physical ailment, which acts as Satan’s messenger to beat me and keep me from being proud. Three times I prayed to the Lord about this and asked him to take it away. But his answer was: ‘My grace is all you need, for my power is strongest when you are weak… I am content with weaknesses, insults, hardships, persecutions and difficulties for Christ sake. For when I am weak I am strong.” (2 Cor 12:7-10).
We are living in a broken world with much suffering, but my suggestion to you is that you trust the almighty God that He, through the Holy Spirit in you, will help you: “Now in all these things we have complete victory through Him who loves us.” (Rom 8:37). The cause of our problems may be an attack of the devil, or a physical disease, infection, virus, weakness, psychological, neurological or any other problem. The devil and the sin of Adam and Eve in Genesis 3 are the origin of all our problems, but Jesus conquered everything through His death and resurrection. We are on our journey to a new heaven and earth without any brokenness. Therefore you must be full of hope and joy by God’s grace. Avoid taking part in any kind of witchcraft activities.
3. Bad and good dreams: God speaks to us through dreams, but the devil will also trouble us with confusing dreams. You have to distinguish with the help of the Holy Spirit whether a dream comes from God or not. It is not so difficult to distinguish: the devil always tries to confuse us, but God’s communication to us is very clear and uplifting. Don’t let the devil confuse you or even disturb you with his efforts. Ignore it. Go to bed with the joy and peace of the Lord in your heart and think about His greatness and love. Jesus Christ in your life is a greater reality than any attack from the evil one, and anything that tries to obscure this truth, is false.
It was great that the Lord used you in the past. He wants to do it again even in the difficult times. Difficulties can even increase God’s powerful truth, in and through your life.
Are you baptised in the Holy Spirit with speaking in tongues?
May God bless you with His love, joy and power.
Greetings
Jan Hattingh
Thank you guys I’m happy to have answers pertaining to this topic, one of my friends asked me about this topic so it helps me alot to answer their questions. Thank you
Thankyou 👏 so much Farai l receive the message of Christ here, it has thrown the light of the gospel of Jesus Christ to us
Thanks. That also confused me.I am looking for a scripture where God was telling the Israelites that worshiping Him and other gods is prostitution. Whoever does that will die.
I am recently ordained as an elder in the church and would like to study for a diploma in the institution, my challenge is that I can only afford two modules in a semester due to financial reasons and nature of my work. Thank you for your time. Please assist me.
Dear Gaonewe
We suggest that you apply for the Diploma and register for the next semester. Take the number of modules you are able to afford and take it semester for semester. If you can afford more modules and are able to allocate the necessary time, then increase your number of modules during the next semester.
Hi Mpho. This is probably not my place, but I just felt the need to write to you because of an experience I’m going through with a relative in a similar situation. All I know and which you should know is that God is All Powerful!!! Jesus has authority above every other power and name , no matter how strong and powerful these evils may be said to be, they are no match for our Lord Jesus Christ. Yes, it’s not an easy battle, but it’s worth fighting!!! Please , no matter what they can threaten you with, you have Christ on your side, please fight! PLEASE, I believe you are already saved already. If you are not, please do accept Christ into your life and mean it. These evils are so evil they don’t just take a simple no for an answer. No matter their threats and whatever stories you hear of how angry they get and all that, God’s anger is worse! And you are His. Cover yourself and your family with His blood and fight!!! Please, please, please, don’t give in!!!!
Die lig het geen gemeeskap met die donker nie. Netsoe die liefde met haat.
Daar is niks virkeerd om mense te waarsku wvand die heiligheid van God nie en die gevaar wat Inwag vir die wat onheil pleeg nie. Om diep in te gaan, gaan dit kos dag ons baie met God in Jesus Naam te bid en vra vir krag en Sy leiding voordat ons in tree om die volk toe te spreek